An interesting thought experiment…
This came to me yesterday and it was so fascinating to me that I wanted to share it with everyone. At the very least, read it. I guarantee that just thinking about it for a minute will irrevocably change your life. If you have an answer, then by all means, place it in the comments section. And if this isn’t your cup of tea, then just hold on tight cause I have a funny story coming soon as well as a new (improved) Chris’s Playlist. Anyway, now that you are warned, on with the show…
Imagine for a moment that we have a universe. In this universe there are 2 people: Person A and Person B. They cannot affect each other in any way. One of them is smart and one of them is dumb though I will not say which is which. Also in this universe is a box. Inside this box there is an object that, if obtained, will cause omnipotence. That is to say that if one of these people in this universe were to open the box and get what was inside of it, they would become God (whatever that means to you). This is caveat: Neither one of them will ever be able to open the box. Even more so they both have absolutely no knowledge of what is in the box or what it means to them. Let me make it perfectly clear…
They will NEVER be able to open the box.
The will NEVER know what is in the box.
They will NEVER know that they will become God if they could open the box.
Person A’s mind is such that he will spend his entire life trying to figure out what is the box. He knows for a fact that he will never actually know what is in the box. For person A it is important to him that he try to find out and as such he will spend his lifetime trying to find out what is inside the box.
Person B’s mind is such that he has no interest in what is in the box. He will spend his entire life not caring about what is in the box. To him, it is entirely unimportant and unnecessary and as such will spend his entire life not wasting a single thought on what is in the box.
My question is this: since I already said one of them was smart and one of them was dumb then my challenge to you is to tell which one is which and why?
I have one side question for you to ponder as well.
Is one of them already God and if so, which one?
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February 26th, 2006 @ 2:57 pm
come on, your making something simple into something overly complex.
ignorance is bliss so the dumb guy is actually the smart one, why waste his time trying to figure it out when he could spend his time on other more important things. only makes the so called smart one look like a dumbass.
Neither of them are gods, because if they were they would have no need to figure out whats in the box. They would both already know what was in the box if either of them was a god. Hell if they were a god then they probably created the box in the first place. damn maybe one of them is a god and created the box to fuck with the other one. in that case which one would do such a thing. I don’t know im just typing out my ass now. Interesting questions dude, keep’em coming. Also i went and seen Running scared at Edwards last night that movie pwns, go see it.
February 26th, 2006 @ 3:17 pm
The instinctual answer seems to be that person A is the smarter one. We have the tendency to say that superiority (or intellect in this case) comes from the ability to question and search for answers (it is what seperates us from the animals blah, blah, blah)
If I sound a little sarcastic about the value of intellect, it’s because I realize this is not all there is to life. In fact it seems that something just as important (if not more so) is inversely proportional to intellect: happiness. “As intellect goes up, happiness goes down… look I’ve made a graph.” — Lisa Simpson.
It seems that without realizing it, person B has already come upon this knowledge. While person A drives himself crazy futilely trying to figure out what is in the box, person B is out enjoying his life. And isn’t this the smartest thing of all? Being able to enjoy your life?
But what do I know… I’ve been typing all of this while on the toilet.
February 26th, 2006 @ 3:21 pm
OMG ALYSSA IS THE SMART ONE ONLY CAUSE SHE HAS WIRELESS TO TYPE WHILE ON THE TOILET! THAT IS HAPPINESS WHILE ENJOYING LIFE!
YES LIFE ON THE TOILET IS HAPPINESS ‘CAUSE YOUR MAKING ROOM FOR MORE FOOD!
February 26th, 2006 @ 3:23 pm
J- You’re freaking awsome. I don’t even know what to say… ha ha ha
February 26th, 2006 @ 7:03 pm
This is from a friend of mine on an internet blackjack message board:
I’ll go with Person B as the smarter and happier person. This is really the question of whether it is worthwhile studying the unknowable, even when you know your limitations. I say no.
I think Buddhism’s four noble truths are helpful to consider here. Person A’s pursuit of knowledge about the box seems like a good example of the craving that causes suffering. The Buddhist approach would be to eliminate that craving, and thus move forward toward enlightenment. Interestingly, becoming dispassionate about the unknowable is critical for enlightenment.
As for your side question, I would also consider Person B more God-like, as his acceptance of non-knowing seems more omniscient than Person A’s striving for the unattainable.
I’m sure others opinions will vary. Interesting questions.
February 26th, 2006 @ 9:28 pm
This is from another friend on the blackjack forums
Both persons ARE GOD… Person B already “knows” this, so there is no basis for further consideration of the box. The box is simply a ‘koan’, and IF Person A devotes enough attention to it eventually he will destroy the box and have a good laugh - he too will AWAKE!
February 26th, 2006 @ 11:10 pm
Wow. not wow as in WoW but, wow….
Is this supposed to be simple? complex? Do the dozens of thoughts coming to mind have something to do with it? Is it an example of how predictable WE are when we read it? Does it have to do with religion at all? Is it an instruction for life? Are we one of these two people?
I think my response is from such a religious standpoint bcz people consider me a religious person…..
Makes me think of Adam & Eve a little bit. i guess you could say that they are Person A in that they want to know, yknow? Or maybe the Box is God and everything that He encompasses and IS.
The Box is religion itself. Person A is the religious-type of person. They spend their life trying to figure Him out and what He wants them to do with thier life. They don’t know what’s on the other end of God but they want to. Person B is the type of person who says fuck religion, fuck God. I’m gonna live my life to MY standards not to something/someone that doesn’t exist bcz theres no proof! He doesnt spend his time trying to figure it out bcz he doesnt care. He knows who he himself is and thats wat matters most.
“B” is happy with his situation. He knows he will die but is content with not knowing what is inside the box. He thinks that there is nothing (pun intended!) “outside of the box” that is worthwhile so why bother? “A” is prolly frustrated but thinks that he is getting somewhere by trying to figure out the box. If he is obedient and FAITHFUL he will figure out the Box and it will bring a great reward of which he has no idea.
“You shall have no other Gods but me”
God IS the Box. It controls both of them. Without it “A” has nothing to occupy himself. Without the box “B” would have nothing to miss bcz there was nothing there TO miss. Both of their characters are directly related to the presence of the Box.
“Is one of them already God and if so, which one?”
You never said it couldn’t be the Box.
Person A is dumb. Person B is dumb.
Person A is smart. Person B is smart.
“A” spends his whole life trying to figure out the Box.
He is wasting his time when he could be working to improve his situation in other ways.
“B” doesn’t care about the Box for the duration of his life.
His existance is pointless bcz he does not care about the Box that, when opened, will give him a mysterious something.
“A” spends his whole life trying to figure out the Box.
He has faith in discovering the contents of the Box which gives his life purpose (that Guides us, that Drives us, it is purpose that so on and so forth for the Matrix fans).
“B” doesn’t care about the Box for the duration of his life.
He is intelligent enuf to know to not bother with something that will not affect him anyway. He won’t open the Box and there’s no proof of anything inside.
…..thats about all i have for this. I think i analyzed the FUCK outta this. -which makes me correct! jk lol
Freakin interesting tho. i think i was able to get all my thoughts down. if i remember someting else ill be sure to post.
tnx Chris.
February 26th, 2006 @ 11:22 pm
OHYA!
“Do the dozens of thoughts coming to mind have something to do with it? Is it an example of how predictable WE are when we read it?”
So far, the comments have reflected that we (the general population of blog-goers) believe that Alyssa is a godess bcz she has wireless internet on the potty (GO Alyssa!) and Person B who doesnt care about the box is smarter. We tried to put ourselves in place of “A” and “B” to see which we would identify with and give them as our answer for the smart one. So my comment is:
Is this entire shenannegan(sp) something to predict how someone will answer the question? Is it that someone created this senario to prove how thought provoking it is to the human mind and based on the answers predict some character of the person who is answering (ie: the religious say “A” is smart, the non-religious say “B” is smart)?
“damn maybe one of them is a god and created the box to fuck with the other one.” -J
Neither one of them could have created the Box for the sole purpose of fucking with the other one bcz the third point of the senario is: They cannot affect each other in any way.
…..ok i think im really done now.
February 26th, 2006 @ 11:24 pm
………..lol im SORRY!! im Sorry.
the title of the blog is “An interesting thought experiment…” which means were ginea pigs and this IS something to do with how we answer.
February 26th, 2006 @ 11:29 pm
…….ok after this one im closing the window.
The answer is that we, ME, Person A are all the same. The Box is the answer to this senario bcz we want to know wat the answer is and when we find out it will be our opening of the Box. Person B is the person who reads this and thinks nothing of it. He doesnt care about the answer and doesnt care about opening the Box.
im fuckin closing the tab. wheres my porn?
February 26th, 2006 @ 11:39 pm
I think I broke JD…
February 27th, 2006 @ 4:58 am
Hi all, I think I’m making my offical debut on Chris’ blog YAAA!
Anyway, I have to sat that the question of who’s smater or dumber is irrelevant. They would be smart as well as dumb people that might take either role. However if the only other thing that can affect them in said universe is this box then I doubt person B has much else to do but masterbate. Not to say masterbating is a bad thing, but I imagine the chaffing might become problamatic. However by that logic, at least person A is thinking about something other than their own junk. Hence person A is probalby smarter.
Even though I’ve, thru my own sick humor come up with an actual answer, I know that wasn’t the point of the excersice. So in order to answer the bonus question lets examine the situation. In this scencario, the box is God. It is god because it is more information, not because is contians omnipotence. Even if we took out the rule where now they might eventually be able to open it up and it ended up being an old stinky chunk of cheese in the box as opposed to complete omnipentence, person A could still say,
“AHH CRAP !! Now it smells everywhere. This universe blows.”
Person A aknowledges that the box contains information, but doesn’t know what. This automatically disqualifies person a from God-status. If they were god than thay would already know and that would be the end of it. But then you might ask, “Doesn’t that make person B God, Since they don’t care?” and the answer is no. Person A would know and still want ot open it. Person B is just blissfully ignorant, they still don’t know what’s in the box. So my answer to the question is neither of them is God.
This definitely reminded me of Alan Moore’s The Watchmen. It’s a graphic novel where one character is essentially God. He is omnipotnet and knows his role in the outcome of the stoy before it unfolds. He is basically forced to go along for the ride. He knows his reactions before there is anything to react to. Interesting stuff.
February 27th, 2006 @ 11:43 am
A simple but elegant answer from my friend Tye.
Person B (he doesnt care whats in the box b/c he is God or a god)
February 27th, 2006 @ 11:48 am
Taken from Joseph’s Forums at http://onekidneywonder.net/forums
I will tell you everyone will choose either Person A or Person B as the smart person, however. it will reflect the person choosing. I am different, I feel that for one to be smart they must want to know things, for only 2 ppl and a box to be in this universe i suppose the smart one is the one that strives to know more, the one that will waste his life wondering WHY. why everything. I am Person B, that’s right im the dumb one. If there was a box that I KNEW I would NEVER open or understand, why bother trying to understand it? why waste such time. Why not waste time on things I DO understand? like… why does Person A look like he’s going to have an aneurism before he opens the box. wait… haha who cares. I need FOOD! yes… food? anyway..
I also choose Person A as God. (if one of them is god in the first place) I should choose Person B seeing as if I were god I wouldnt care about a box, but I choose Person A because a SMART God WOULD care about a box. It could contain eminent doom! anyway that’s just me Smile later!
February 27th, 2006 @ 3:35 pm
Another responce from the Blackjack Message Board. This time applied to his experiences as a card counter…
Definetely an interesting question - I want to be person B, so I’ll say he’s smarter (but maybe I’m A, b/c I’m not seeing the connection to my opinion on variance?)
February 27th, 2006 @ 3:41 pm
My first REAL BIG controversy… Again, from the Blackjack Message Board (off topic section)
I often use the “hopeless therefore worthless” argument to explain my deep frustration with those that advocate teaching creationism in science class. This probably isn’t the best forum for that debate, but it’s an interesting parallel, I think.
February 27th, 2006 @ 5:32 pm
OK I have to say many people have been talking about what happens when the box is opened. Remember one of the stipulations is that the box can not be opened. But one can argue that both people can not know this which begs the question what are the possibilities if the box could be opened?
It seems like anyhting else- once one learns what is in the box it can not be unlearned. Therefore the box is ultimately a Pandora’s box. In which case
you better be damned sure that you are not worse off after the box is opened. In this case it isn’t really a matter of who is smarter being that it depends on what is in the box (Pandora was only dumb because evil was in the box- if something good were in the box then she’d be a genious).
The box is more a matter of what you are willing to risk. Person A is willing to risk his life, health, happiness etc. to find out what is in the box. This may turn out good for him (the people who are the top of any field are risk takers) or it could ultimately destroy everything he has (people at the “bottom” of society are risk takers too).
But person B is more cautious. He’ll never be at the top of anything, but he’s never going to destroy his life either. He has a better chance of happiness than person A (please don’t try to argue that success equals happiness because it does not), but he is never going to be anything great either.
So the question, then, is really for person A. If you ask person A, “Is knowing worth destruction?” and their answer is yes, then more power to them. However, if the answer is no then he better be the luckiest person in the world.
February 27th, 2006 @ 5:50 pm
From a drum corps friend of mine…
Actually, Person C is the omnipotent being in this story. Whomever it is that knows that what ever is in the box will make you God.
February 28th, 2006 @ 12:25 am
this is freakin aweesome
February 28th, 2006 @ 2:22 am
An answer from Jared (haven’t heard from him in a while)
now that’s an interesting perspective on it. you never said which person was smart and which was dumb, but you did specify what the box meant to person a and person b. it’s probably best to say (in my opinion at least) that person b is already God and the smart one, he already has enough knowledge on other things that he doesn’t need the box, though he doesn’t know what’s inside. person b is confident enough in themself that they know they don’t need the box. while person a will spend their dumb life trying to figure out what’s in the box and how to open it, but will waste their life away in doing so. so in my opinion, maybe it’s best for dumb person a to start thinking less of the box and more on smart person b. maybe then he’ll find it’s better to have a relationship with a person, rather than a box.
March 1st, 2006 @ 1:36 pm
damn it Gafoo, now im going to be checking this site all the time now too… look I even registered. ARG!
btw great question, my answer was the one pulled off of http://onekidneywonder.net/forums/index.php
May 13th, 2007 @ 5:52 pm
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